Sandy Hook Massacre: The People v. Crisis Management Institute

This thread is a continuation of the January 26 post, “How we know a guide on counseling children about Sandy Hook predated the massacre.
For the back story of this, see “Guide on how to talk to children about Sandy Hook 4 days BEFORE massacre,” Jan. 16, 2013.
Peter, the author of “How we know a guide….,” continuea to make his case with “Exhibits” on some highly technical aspects of “How we know….” I will be adding to this post, so please check back for updated material.
If you write a comment, please refer to the particular Exhibit to which you’re addressing, as in “re. Exhibit #1” or “re. Exhibit #2.”
Peter will present his case as a prosecutor at a criminal trial. Let’s call it “The People v. Crisis Management Institute-Arlington Red Devils.” Below is his “Opening Statement.” I will be adding his Exhibits, as he writes them.
~Eowyn


The People v. Crisis Management Institute-Arlington Red Devils

So that I can place all the information I have for you to consider here in an orderly fashion I will present it in the fashion of a prosecutor in a criminal trial.
At the start of a Criminal Trial the Prosecutor makes a statement explaining what the Crime consists of, who he thinks is the criminal, and outlines how he intends to provide evidence showing that his case is accurate.

OPENING STATEMENT

On December 14, 2012 there was a School Shooting Incident at the Sandy Hook School. Some days after the actual shootings, Documents 1, 2 & 3 in “How we know a guide on counseling children about Sandy Hook predated the massacre were found on the Internet. We will examine all 3 very closely to determine how they came to exist.
Documents 1 & 2 were found in Google’s Webcache, a place that records all public documents Google finds on the Internet.
Document 3 was found using the Google search engine.
The published dates displayed on all three documents predate the events of Dec 14, 2012.
Document 1 shows Dec 10, 2012, Documents 2 & 3 show December 13, 2012.
Our task here is to examine and present all the evidence available to us in order to determine whether the documents originated before or after Dec 14th, 2012.
The process will have 3 stages.
1. Determine if there is enough evidence to proceed with this investigation. If there is not enough evidence stop here. If there is enough evidence go on to stage 2.
2. Determine the date the documents were created. If the document are shown to originate after the events stop here. If the documents are shown to predate the actual event proceed to Stage 3
3. Determine who is responsible for creating Documents 1, 2 & 3 as they appear within Google’s servers.
If it is proven the documents did originate before Dec 14, 2012, it means that someone had foreknowledge and it was likely a massive preplanned event rather than a random shooting caused by a deranged individual.
Determining who falsified the documents will point to the guilty party by determining who had the access required to change them and also who had a motive to change them.

EXHIBIT 1: Who Had Access?

The Arlington Schools, not school Website functions within computer software called SpireCMS, the developer of this software and most likely the designer of the website is present here as commenter Jeremy.
I owe him an apology for something I had written in public on this thread. [Note from Eowyn: I’ve since deleted Peter’s accusatory comments about Jeremy, and have apologized to Jeremy.] I said what I said in public because my communication with the staff here is limited. I am only a guest here as Jeremy is. I am ALWAYS open to changing my opinion if I discover I have been wrong.
Jeremy could provide much valuable information about the site in question if he chooses to do so. I hope he does.
I am going to place many urls / weblinks in this thread which will allow you to go to the actual sites being discussed whenever possible.
The first website is: https://www.arlingtonlocalschools.com/
To go to the site, copy and paste the url above into another window of your browser.
Visting the site shows us the schools are located in Ohio. The website shows an address of 336 South Main Street, Arlington, Ohio 45814; phone: 419-365-5121; fax: 419-365-1282. I assume this is their School District’s Office.
There is an Internet Tool called Whois which when used in conjunction with a search engine such as Google will return detailed information about websites.
To find out where the computers that hold the Arlington Schools Website are located, I did a whois and checked two different databases.
1. https://www.ip-adress.com/whois/arlingtonlocalschools.com
The results are:

This report on Arlingtonlocalschools was run on January, 01, 2013.
Arlingtonlocalschools.com Server Details
IP address:
184.106.51.33
Server Location:
San Antonio, TX in United States
ISP:
Rackspace Hosting

  1. https://whois.domaintools.com/arlingtonlocalschool.com
    The results are:

25 other sites hosted on this server. Remember this it will be important.
IP Address:
184.106.51.33
IP Location:
United States – New York – New York City
Domain Status:
Registered And Active Website

I have not included all the information available, only what is relevant here. You can verify what is here is accurate by using the url’s.
I won’t explain what everything here means, just tell you what it tells me in plain English. Other techies are welcome to comment if they feel I am wrong.
The Arlington School’s Website is not physically located in Ohio where the schools are. Until at least Jan 1, 2013, they were on a server located in Houston, Texas. The site was recently moved (Jan 1, 2013) to a server located in New York City.
The above means that when staff at the Arlington Schools’ Office sit down at a computer to manage the website, they are not working on a Website hosted locally on a computer in their offices. Until Jan 1, 2013 they were managing their website on a server located in Texas and from that date to the present on a server in New York.
Jeremy’s SpireCMS is what easily, without technical skills, allows them to do this.
SpireCMS, that’s used by Arlington Schools, is an example of Content Management Systems (CMS). So is WordPress, that’s used to create and manage this blog, FOTM. Content Management Systems easily allow owners with very minimal technical computer skills to make available to the public whatever information they like.
The staff person at the school in Arlington who maintains the website, could as easily be sitting here beside me in Ocean Falls and do everything they could from their office. Neither location is where the Website server computer is.
All that is required to do this is for the staff person to have a username and password with authorization as an administrator.
Obviously you don’t want everyone who uses the site to have administrator rights as anyone could then possibly do serious damage or steal confidential information.
CMS systems commonly allow a number of different levels of access, such as (I won’t mention all of them here, only enough to illustrate what is needed):

  • End Users: such as parents or children who can only comment as we guests on FOTM can. They can also possibly access areas of the site not open to the public.
  • Authors: Authors are allowed more privileges than End Users but not all the privileges of an administrator. They cannot change the site layout or functioning, they can only create documents and place them where needed. While creating documents they are allowed to upload files from their own local computer to add to the document they create. The uploaded documents can be pretty much anything, a picture, a video, a song, a pdf file.
  • Administrator: An admin can do everything an author can plus tweak all the controls on the site.

The link below is live and can be clicked directly to see how authority is set:
https://www.oceanfalls.org/misc/sh/a2/wpuser.jpg
It will show the section of the WordPress control panel on one of the sites I manage which allows an administrator to authorize each member with their own unique privileges.
All that the staff person at Arlington Schools would need to do to authorize a trusted person to upload and create content on the site is to go to that member’s profile record, partially shown above, open the dropbox as illustrated, and decide what they will allow that person to do.
That person could then access the School’s website — Arlington Red Devils — from any Internet connection in the world.
Giving such a person any privilege from author up, would allow them to do everything required to create and place the Documents 1, 2, & 3 we are discussing, without the intervention from anyone directly associated with the school.
If Jeremy would be so kind as to confirm spireCMS works similarly to this and has the same capability, it would prove someone could place the documents without anyone at the school knowing about it.
If Jeremy won’t confirm this, I will ask Eowyn, the owner of this site, to temporarily elevate my privileges so I can demonstrate how it is done.
The above proves to me conclusively that the possibility that someone not directly associated with the school could have uploaded and created the content we are discussing.
If we all agree with my conclusion we can continue on and next try to determine if anyone outside the school had opportunity to create the material by being given such authority.

-Peter

Update (Feb. 8, 2013):

Peter continues to make his case by examining two Google cache documents. See “A computer forensics analysis of 2 Sandy Hook documents,” Feb. 8, 2013.

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TrailDust
Admin

Thank you for breaking this down to an orderly approach.
The implications are too large to let adrenaline rule the discussion.
~TD (an accidental techy)

Steve
Member

OK, so far I undertand. 😀

lowtechgrannie lowtechgrannie
Member
lowtechgrannie lowtechgrannie

So far it all seems pretty straightforward.

BT
Guest
BT

This site has been on my favorites in “Daily” reading for a long time. Yet, I don’t come here often enough. When I do – it is never just for a couple of minutes and click off to something else. Thank you all, here, for the work that you do! If I only knew how to use this ridiculous version of windows – 8 – I’d have this site saved for one of my FIRST visits of the day! Surely I cannot be alone in such thinking – and, clearly, I am not, after reading so many articles and comments,… Read more »

Steve
Member

BT, I think I own every 100 watt bulb made..LOL bought them all last year. Thanks for the compliments. As far as windows 8 you can throw it out the window I agree. What browser are you using? I’m working on a laptop with Vista and use mostly Mozzila and pretty easy to book mark stuff. My wife has new PC with windows 8 and being a typical guy ,God forbid I read the tutorials. I just found out there is a quick launch app that kinda makes it feel like windows 7. You know click bottom rt micro symbol… Read more »

BT
Guest
BT

Past my paygrade re: browser, Steve. Explorer? Yes. [Dell laptop that was 15 months – 15 MONTHS – old w/Windows 7 died. “Seven beeps of death.” There are NO new laptops out there to be found – worth anything – that have 7 on them. Actually bought a “floor model” Asus w/7 on it and it worked for 36 hours. Not kidding. Keyboard was shot! Of course it was, it was a floor model. What was I thinking?! Best Buy handled it well. Have a new Asus. There is no “RTFM” – it’s all on-line, I’m told. Feel like I’m… Read more »

Steve
Member

BT, well some how you find your way back here. Keep doing that.LOL

Mari Caplan
Guest

keep it coming, you are doing good!

alice wolf
Guest
alice wolf

Anonymous? Doesn’t Anonymous work for the CIA?
Am I nuts? Didn’t Anonymous hack into the Syrian Govt. internet capability just now? The main issue is do you love Jesus? His name is above all other names including Anonymous. Exhale everyone, God is in control and he is an On Time God, he may not come when you want him, but he’s always right on time.
Wait I say on the Lord…………………………………….

TrailDust
Admin
TrailDust

Even though I have not commented before on all of Dr. Eowyn’s meticulous research in to the discrepancies on the “official” version of what happened in Newtown. I have been reading the the posts and I have heard several radio talk show hosts state how misguided we were about our conspiracy theories. If I interpret what I have read so far right, a tragedy did occur at some location, be it a school or some other location but it is was all planned out in advance and while I don’t dispute that shootings took place, the official version of the… Read more »

Peter
Guest
Peter

You may not be aware I recently added a lot of new material regarding the Arlington Local Schools Site in the previous thread. All that material relates to the website at the Arlington Schools Website, Not to Crisis Management Inc. To check that thread CLICK HERE ==================================================================== Today I put a schedule in the other thread estimating when the rest of the Investigation will be completed. I repeat it here for your convenience. ———————————————————————————————– To reassure those of you who might be wondering if I will ever get around to the critical point of addressing the actual evidence in this… Read more »

hrmfc
Guest
hrmfc

Thank you, Peter for your time and analysis. The crime, the coverup, the planning, the released information are all so heinous, I’ve truly withdrawn from most comments. I turn to our Lord and pray and that is the solace that my soul seeks.

Peter
Guest
Peter

REGARDING CRISIS MANAGEMENT INC (CMI)
I have added 3 Exhibits for CMI
1) The contents of the pdf file they provided to the Arlington Local Schools Site. The 2 pages of the document are displayed as images for those who have trouble with Acrobat Reader.
To view the Exhibit CLICK HERE

Peter
Guest
Peter

2) The contents of 6 other pdf files CMI provides to their clients to give a better idea of the scope of their services. The 6 pages of the documents are displayed as images for those who have trouble with Acrobat Reader.
To view the Exhibit CLICK HERE

Peter
Guest
Peter

3) A screen capture of a page on CMI’s site that shows the type of training services they provide to clients. There is also a live link to that page on their site.
To view the Exhibit CLICK HERE (close exhibit window to return here)
I was hoping to start on the actual analysis of CMI tonight but I got sidetracked for a period and will instead start on it tomorrow. See you then.
 
Peter

J. D. Weiss
Guest
J. D. Weiss

Have you guys seen this? Talking with your child about the Sandy Hook Tragedy December 10, 2012 If you need additional resources to you talk with your child about the recent school tragedy at Sandy Hook Elementary School please check our website under Parents/Students. The link is posted under both the Elementary School Forms and Information section and the High School Forms and Information section. Click on either link and then scroll down to the bottom of the screen to Talking with your Children about the Sandy Hook Incident. After reading the posts here while doing research on the topic… Read more »

Peter
Guest
Peter

JD, thank you for this…. It is another cached copy of the page that Google removed from their cache recently, during this investigation. That move by Google is suspicious. Google regularly removes search returns, which are a separate record from a cached page, once a page no longer exists where it was first found, but supposedly the last archived version of any page Google recorded stays in the archive into perpetuity. Once the search record pointing at a page is deleted by Google, the only way to find the archived copy of that page is to know the exact name… Read more »

Peter
Guest
Peter

I have created an EXHIBIT with all the relevant information regarding this great find by J. D. Weiss.
To view the EXHIBIT with the Wayback Machine Archive version of Document 1 CLICK HERE

Steve
Member

Now that’s interesting

Peter
Guest
Peter

Good morning…. I started the day by adding another new exhibit. To view the exhibit CLICK HERE ————————————– To set the stage for the next portion of the investigation I will summarize the general information we have gathered so far to put what we have accomplished into perspective. To aid the summary I wanted to place another general piece of information gathered about ALS into the record. The exhibit above is that piece of information. ————————————– The above exhibit contains information about where the Arlington Local Schools Website (ALS) is physically located. There are many different websites on the internet… Read more »

Peter
Guest
Peter

I have created a new general interest Exhibit. It is a picture of the School we are discussing taken from the website of Arlington Village.
To view the exhibit CLICK HERE

Peter
Guest
Peter

CRISIS MANAGEMENT INSTITUTE (CMI) PO Box 331 Salem, OR 97308 Phone: 503-585-3484 Fax: 503-364-0403 Url: https://www.cmionline.com (Early on in one of the threads here someone placed a record in a thread from the Oregon Database of Companies that showed where CMI are physically located. Could some one please find that information and get it to me? I’d like to add it to the Exhibits.) Because this is not an Official Investigation we can no more compel CMI to provide us with physical proof of their involvement at ALS than we can force SpireCMS (Jeremy), Arlington Local School, (ALS) or Google… Read more »

Peter
Guest
Peter

Good day. I have one more piece of information regarding Crisis Management Institute to add here before moving on to examining the documents we are all interested in. After my post yesterday about using keyboard macros as a way to automatically submit documents to CMS systems, I realize I was already using free software capable of doing this in a much simpler way. CMI could easily do the same thing. Here I will only summarize this process. To view a fuller description of the process, including some screenshots CLICK HERE Using a free software tool, either within a news broadcasting… Read more »

Peter
Guest
Peter

I have placed a new Exhibit into the Investigation in preparation to dispute another statement of Jeremy’s.
To view the new exhibit CLICK HERE
I need to deal with some local stuff for a few hours but will post the material regarding another of Jeremy’s statements later today.
Tomorrow we will move on to examining the documents themselves.
See you later.
Peter

Peter
Guest
Peter

Still working on local stuff. Will finish response to Jeremy tomorrow
Peter

Kathy
Guest
Kathy

Dr. Eowyn, I thought you might be interested in this article if you have not already seen it. It contains lots of information. Be sure to read the information revieled in the comments. UNBELIEVEABLE!
Thanks for everything you are doing here.
https://memoryholeblog.com/2013/01/28/an-inquisitive-couples-visit-to-newtown-connecticut/

Peter
Guest
Peter

Kathy… Thank you very much for the link to that interesting information. It shows further evidence that the events at Sandy Hook are not what the mass media want us to believe. There is much other suggestive evidence similar to it. So far, in my estimation, the only evidence with any hope of proving 100% that there was a false flag event at Sandy Hook, is the material I am examining here. If I can prove 100% that the Arlington School Documents were created before Dec 14th, that will help validate all the other suspicious occurrences surrounding the Sandy Hook… Read more »

tak
Guest
tak

we were having a drill.
https://youtu.be/et4K_1bGZAQ

Peter
Guest
Peter

Hello…. I have the whole day today to work on this. So far I have created another Exhibit. To view the new Exhibit CLICK HERE The exhibit is to be introduced in my response to Jeremy later today regarding his say that someone at Arlington Local Schools ()ALS created the document in question on December 17th, 2012 and then back-dated it so it would display properly. The exhibit consists of a series of links, and their results, that I created in order to check to see in any such document, without a published date of Dec 10,2012 or PERMALINK including… Read more »

Peter
Guest
Peter

I have now responded to all the points Jeremy made in his opening statement. His other comments are just repeats of what he stated there. Some of his points will come up again in the next stage of the investigation and will be answered in more detail then. To view my responses to Jeremy CLICK HERE There are no new revelations there, this just tied up loose ends. I am now starting work on the last segment of the Investigation. It is an in depth analysis of the documents themselves. This thread is getting long so the last stage will… Read more »

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

Everyone seems to be forgetting that I was the one who helped Cheri upload this document on the 14th to the CMI website…. So there’s NO WAY that the Arlington site could have posted about it until after either WE had posted it on the current events page OR someone at that school received our Constant Contact email blast (and I’m pretty sure that Cheri sent the blast out after she had the PDF up on the site). (By the way, I’ve not been checking this thread/site for a while because I was busy having our first baby, or rather,… Read more »

Steve
Member

Brant, congrat’s on the baby. Umm get ready for an experiment in sleep deprivation. LOL You’ll survive. Only to have them grow into teenagers
Aghhh. Mine just turned 13.
May God Bless You and your Wife and this special Gift from God. 😀

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

Oh man.. don’t say the “T” word! I’ve got some time right??? (That’s what I thought 9 mos ago too.. lots of time.. nope! Flew by!)
Thank you Steve, and the same to you and yours.

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

Thanks! She is quite the life changing event! (and sleep destroyer!) 😉

Peter
Guest
Peter

Hi…. I’m writing to you from a laptop. I was tired when I finished last night and forgot to take my computer offline for the night. I leave my computer on 24/7 during the winter because I do not heat my house. During the winter most of the time my house stays just a degree or two above freezing. In these temperatures if I turn my computer off overnight it is very hard on it when it starts up. All the fans and moving parts really grind when it is first turned on. I usually just turn off the screens… Read more »

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

@ Peter – While I don’t know why you want to not heat your house…. One client of mine was bringing her laptop in to me with bad drives every couple of months. I didn’t know what was really going on until I spotted something that looked like water damage, I asked her if she’d spilled anything on the machine, she said no but “in the morning you know how everything is dripping from the dew?” Flabbergasted, I asked if she left the laptop outside or something, but she said “no, but I don’t heat the house because I leave… Read more »

Peter
Guest
Peter

Hi Brant…. I’m killing time while repair routines are trying to recover my drives. Congratulations on the baby! If CMI did nothing wrong then I am convinced my investigation will show that conclusively. I haven’t yet ruled out other possibilities. I ran a computer support company for institutional clients for 12 years. Though retired now, wherever I am I’m the guy people go to to fix their computer whenever things go catastrophically wrong. If I can’t fix my own computer there’s pretty much no one else for me to turn to. RE Not heating my house… for pretty well my… Read more »

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

Thank you Peter. My day job (I host a few site and do web work on the side) is as an IT Sysadmin, so I know a few things too. It just seemed that if you had 2x 2TB drives fail at the same time (unless a RAID controller took them out or similar) then it was probably environmental. That was just my feeling and experience. You might want to look at a RAID array or NAS box if you haven’t already – that way you can run just the SSD for your system drive and your files can live… Read more »

Peter
Guest
Peter

I am on a limited budget. I also have 3 drive bays for swapable drives. In total I have just under 10TB of data files that I need to access regularly. Individual files I work with are usually 2 to 3 gb so I need a huge amount of space. A raid would be great but I’d need about 30tb of disk space to implement one. I can’t afford it. I am also hesitant about recovery of stripped files. Without raid I at least know where stuff was. The last time I had a system failure, before the 3 I’ve… Read more »

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

I see, well.. when you have the time and a spare old machine, look into https://www.freenas.org/

Peter
Guest
Peter

The only available internet link out of this remote location is via satellite and satellite is way too slow and expensive for offsite backup. 🙁 I’d love to have all that gear but have other budget priorities that are way higher up on my list. I try to live cheaply enough so that I do not need to contribute income taxes to the governments that are destroying us. Even though I earn little enough to not owe any income tax, I refuse to file tax returns on principle. I am in a running battle with Revenue Canada. So far over… Read more »

Peter
Guest
Peter

OK I’m back on my main machine.
After copying everything off the damaged drives that wasn’t backed up, in case an attempted repair made things worse instead of better, it only took about 30 seconds to repair the drives by restoring copies of their MBR.
The system is happy now and after a short break to calm my nerves I’ll be back at the investigation.
Sorry for the delay.
Peter

Peter
Guest
Peter

I have created another exhibit meant to make examining the 2 Google Cache Records closely easier.
To view the exhibit CLICK HERE
I’m going to take a break to cook myself some diner and then later work on the article that will start the Document Section of this Investigation. The article will itemize step by step how I will proceed in this section, and also summarize what I will attempt to prove.
Peter

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

I have looked through your exhibit, and you make many assumptions about how SpireCMS works with no way to know if you are correct or not. You also claim that: “For some unknown reason Google removed the Dec 10th page from their cache on Jan 23, 2013. That Google removed a page out of their archive is highly unusual, possibly even unprecedented.” But it isn’t unusual or unprecedented: https://support.google.com/websearch/bin/answer.py?hl=en&answer=164734 “When a page is updated or removed, it will automatically fall out of our search results. You don’t need to do anything to make this happen.” I haven’t seen a Google… Read more »

J. D.
Guest
J. D.

I created a set of examples: https://www.flickr.com/photos/92991349@N06/ to illustrate several data field(s) for the date in question. Putting in the correct date for such an important News item seems quite simple… correcting the wrong date is also quite simple and yet, this simple error was wrong twice? The example (3a) shows a simple addition “note date” to the up-load date line[another client of the CMI] showing where in the code(3) this ref. is made and the resulting change to the page itself. Clearly, without actual site permission no outside edit is allowable. I was unable to find a clear code/path… Read more »

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

J.D. : The “note date” field you are seeing is part of the XML attribute spec and yes, would be edited completely by the CMS controlling the site content. The upload dates of the file (in this case 3 different times on Dec 17th) are not editable. I would like everyone to note the upload dates/times of OUR upload of the PDF too, since it is on the 14th: https://www.cmionline.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/ Also, to Peter, who was saying that permalinks couldn’t be changed after publishing.. they certainly can. It is an option by default on a any installation of WordPress. See my… Read more »

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

Oh and also, “[another client of the CMI]” is false, they simply copied and pasted our content from our site or email blast to their site – again, CMI has no contracts or affiliations with any other site.

Peter
Guest
Peter

Another morning and back on my laptop. Again trying to recover my main machine. I ran a whole bunch of different malware and virus scans on it last night before quitting for the night. System came up clean. I spent most of the evening creating graphics for this presentation. Like an idiot I placed them where I usually do, the drive that is acting up. They address things like the point Brant is making about wordpress allowing you to change the permalink of an article. On the surface he is right, Derrick raised the same point. The quick explanation I… Read more »

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

But the WP revisions feature store those past changes in the SQL database, not visible to web visitors or Google Cache.
Also, once a permalink has been changed via the WP Edit page for that page or post, it is changed for good and the old permalink no longer works, it results in a 404 page not found, as it should.
Restoring to a previous revision restores the content and the title of the page, but the permalink is NOT part of the revision saving feature.
I JUST tested this out to confirm.

Peter
Guest
Peter

I’m back on my main machine. I’ll quickly answer these questions here and then prepare the simplified illustrated article version of this so everyone can understand what we are talking about. In order to get rid of the 404 error you need to select the revision for editing. and then republish it. You may need to flush your disk cache. But going to the news stream again will show the revised permalink. You can switch back and forth as many times as you like. In WP there can be many different versions/records of a single article. The way the code… Read more »

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

Or, in case I am not allowed to embed:
https://www.screenr.com/8z47

Peter
Guest
Peter

I can tell from the permalink in the test that you performed the test on a WordPress Page not a wordpress post because it does not have a date embedded
in the permalink.
The news feed at Arlington Schools Website is composed of posts not pages. WordPress treats posts and pages very differently for a very specific reason I will explain later.
Try the same test with a post instead. You will find it acts very differently than a page.

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

I will, but keep in mind that:
A. You can define any structure you want for permalinks in WP in settings.
B. SpireCMS is not WordPress…

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

So, as I just tested for myself, see the link below as proof… WordPress, upon changing a permalink on a POST, will remember the previously assigned permalinks and redirect to the current version of the post. The date shown as the post publish date though, can of course be chosen by the user and has no effect on the URL. I prove this by not having my permalink structure auto named based on date but on page title.
https://screenr.com/NY47

Peter
Guest
Peter

This test is still not valid. The news feed at ALS uses dates in the url not names. To do the test properly you need to use a date based permalink.

Peter
Guest
Peter

My challenge to you when using a date based url is to created a document where the url says one date and the published date says a different one. I couldn’t do it, perhaps you can?
Yes in WP you can change the format of how dates display in the url but you cannot change the way they function.
I’m going to continue on with the article now.

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

Nope, couldn’t do it exactly.. but again.. SpireCMS isn’t WordPress so I’m not really sure why we’re comparing the 2…
My attempt:
https://screenr.com/GY47
Me showing the PDF in Filezilla and the web dir…
https://screenr.com/YY47
forgive my public speaking skills…lol

Peter
Guest
Peter

The most important point to add to the above.
Even if the published date is changed on a SpireCMS news item, the permalink will ALWAYS show the date the item was entered into the database.
The next step is to prove that /2012/12/10/ could only have been created on that date. I have convincing evidence that is true.

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

I am just curious to know how you can possibly claim this to be true without knowledge beyond what Jeremy told you of SpireCMS, a proprietary system that, in truth, could operate in any number of ways none of us is privy to.

Peter
Guest
Peter

If you examine the 2 Google Cache records, Dec 10, 2012 and Dec 13, 2012, closely you will discover they allow SpireCMS to do something that WP doesn’t. I spent about two hours in WordPress trying in many different ways to duplicate what we see in these two records. It can’t be done in WordPress. Unless google cache records lie it can only mean one thing. That in SpireCMS the permalink always stays at the creation date of the item, even if the published date is changed. To compare the 2 cache records easily CLICK HERE I’m at work on… Read more »

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

So what you are saying is that you base your accusation on your position that: “in SpireCMS the permalink always stays at the creation date of the item, even if the published date is changed.” and from your bolded statement a few comments up: “Even if the published date is changed on a SpireCMS news item, the permalink will ALWAYS show the date the item was entered into the database.” Well, it’s not the case. The owner of SpireCMS has already explained how this works. It explains also your screenshots from Google Cache. Here was where he explained how it… Read more »

Peter
Guest
Peter

Brant you mis-read Jeremy’s statement. That is not surprising because the statement is pretty confusing.
Jeremy is actually confirming what I said.
The way wordpress deals with posts causes 404 errors in search engines for search records created before the post is edited. Jeremy’s way of doing it doesn’t. That is because the permalink doesn’t change even when the published date does.
* Jeremy offered to do the same test as you just performed while using a page not a post. Such a test is like comparing apples and oranges and is useless.

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

I’ll agree that changing the “publish date” changes only the date on the post itself, under the title, and the permalink wouldn’t change unless changed by the editing user. as I demonstrated here: https://screenr.com/NY47
But Jeremy is saying that under SpireCMS, it DOES.
In other words, under his system, changing the date also changes the permalink URL structure (but redirects from old URL structures used previously), but under WordPress, they are 2 separate things.

Jeremy
Guest

Looks like I re-joined the party with perfect timing! 🙂 Earlier today, Peter said: *”Even if the published date is changed on a SpireCMS news item, the permalink will ALWAYS show the date the item was entered into the database.”* The video I just created will prove Peter’s statement to be FALSE. I just created this video showing how POSTS work in SpireCMS. The only difference between my site and Arlington is that they call it “News,” and we call it “Blogs.” It uses the exact same panel, we just change the naming scheme in the CMS, and one word… Read more »

Brant Walsh
Guest
Brant Walsh

Thanks Jeremy! (even if you don’t see this!)

Crustacean
Guest
Crustacean

Thank you both, Jeremy and Brant. Jeremy, my only criticism of your video is that you didn’t sign off with “the defense rests!” 🙂 And thanks to you, Dr. Eowyn, for your perseverance and commitment to finding the truth.

J. D.
Guest
J. D.

First of all let me be quite clear I am not accusing the site in question or Mr. Walsh or Jeremy of any wrong doing…. furthermore, the only individual who can answer the simple question of WHY the post date for this single news post was pre-dated to the actual event is not speaking for himself/herself as the case may be…. so anyone speaking for them results in hearsay. Nonetheless, I do appreciate the answers as given to help me understand what simple process went sideways in regards to the posting date of the news blast post. The site map:… Read more »

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